Troop Unit Size

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UesugiKenshin
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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Some minor races get special defensive buildings but realistically these are not built by the minor races. And some minor races have fleets which they get taken through the membership process.

This leaves the minor races devoid of defenses and having to defend with civilians. That makes no sense.

In all the times invading, just once and by accident, a minor race actually lost membership with the Terrans and so actually built a starship and so destroyed an Omega transport. Why? I hit the end turn button by accident on my tablet...before sending an escort.

You either have a fleet go in first then follow with a transport or create a fleet with a transport to prevent this from occuring.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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So that transport got clobbered in space.

What I think is after doing all research, at higher than 14+ research, Omega transports would have at least some offensive and defensive attributes. This is just common sense.

And similarly, minor races would be configured to have defensive buildings as they cannot produce troops. They are totally vulnerable now.

And higher and higher level units would defend and invade. Strong defenders are necessary.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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Minor races are most often broke and have totally inadequate infrastructure, yet sometimes have fleets! That does not follow. Why would a minor race who cannot leave their sector build colony ships? That actually happens.

Really it is far more interesting to have a giant galactic map with all the minor races and six empires. And make the minor races strong so they defend themselves.

So major races then focus on colonization and by turn #300 then start thinking about possibly doing some local invasions, but by turn #400, they have sizable military forces.

Early conquest of the minor races is not a good outcome. Instead they are gained as scout explorers are hailed and diplomacy results in eventual memberships.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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If you try my Omega save games, you will see an extremely strong empire with many colonies as the Omega built things up rather than invaded. Had they done so, too much money on a standing professional army would restrict their economy. This is the smart conservative pragmatic way.

Sectors begin as colonies and are totally terraformed, not done in stages.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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I don't know what the maximum offensive and defensive and morale values are for units, but single units might get extremely strong. You likely will need less as that is so.

They really are not single units but single armies of various composition of significant size and be employing all kinds of tactics.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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US population
330 million

US military forces
Army active duty 479,485
Army National Guard 336,392
Navy active duty 332,358
Air Force active duty 327,878
Army Reserve 282,884
Marine Corps active duty 186,009
Air National Guard 107,197
Marine Corps Reserve 102,415
Navy Reserve 103,678
Air Force Reserve 97,703
Coast Guard active duty 40,830
Coast Guard Reserve 7,629
Total 2,419,818

Percentage of the US population 0.73% of the US population. See I think percentage wise, that it is similar to what the Omega have. I think my way of considering the US population vs the US military size then projecting what portion might protect as terrestrial ground forces in a sector where that also includes a space force is going to be very close.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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UesugiKenshin hat geschrieben: Samstag 23. Januar 2021, 23:00 Example
The Omega have used sabotage to great effect and all professional soldiers, defensive buildings, and starbases and starships in orbit have been eliminated over enemy controlled Sparta held by the Terrans.

The Terran population is 6 billion.
You send 6 level 6 troops of Da'unor Special Units (but those are 6 times 6 million mixed composition soldiers or 36 million to easily take out 6 billion. And it will consistently work. In practice, based on the ground invasion formula, expect 1-2 billion casualties!

On an inhabited sector of 60 billion, you might lose 30 billion if you sent in 15 level 6 units. That would be 15 times 6 million or a ground invasion force of 90 million versus 60 billion.

These figures are entirely without assault ships using torpedoes for bombardment.
2,419,818 protecting 330 million 0.73%
Vs
36 million attacking 6 billion 0.6%

This is remarkably logical and within a ballpark figure of what would be required, and that is to attack civilians totally lacking protection as sabotage has destroyed all defenses and professional military troops plus intelligence agencies used as counterintelligence.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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Six units if each is actually a mixed composition army region is likely 36 million invaders and in that example taking out 6 billion civilians in a two week period for a successful ground invasion by subjugation.

And that would take an enormous amount of time for one planet to subjugate, but would attack the most densely populated urban zones and military facilities.

And that in the USA typically is 2.5% of the land mass. 72% live in a tiny portion of the total US land area, so those retreating would be refugees and the dissidents. It is about 27 % that lives in the rural regions, but would burgeoned with retreating refugees.

Then expect in the example 1-2 billion civilian casualties out of 6 billion.

If the ground invasion has an efficiency strength 10-100% more per unit, that might be within the realm of possibility. It really depends on what level of unit and if more tech is added and what turn as that likely begins with minor races in turn#301 and maybe turn #401 for major race versus major race conflict by then.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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http://www.forum.birth-of-the-empires.d ... &start=585
Starting here I step by step explain how many civilians are expected to rise up as partisans, guerillas, and irregulars to oppose such a ground invasion. The BotE formula has 20% of civilians as that estimate. This means 1.2 billion civilians would rise up to fight.

O.135 multiplied by that figure is the BotE formula for minimal casualties, but they might be 0.369 as the factor, or more depending on how many torpedoes are utilized during bombardment. In one test, before I ever knew the actual formula, I sent in an entire fleet and vaporized 60 billion out of 62 billion. Be careful.

So with 6 billion civilians being subjugated by 36 million(6 units of troops as the ground invasion force) the expected minimal casualties is 800 million...but that is guessing what a minimal force is. In actual practice and testing with higher level units, expect 1-2 billion casualties. The BotE formula predicts a maximum of 2.214 billion civilian casualties. But realize that if you use the ship designer, you can make every starship absolutely lethal in terms of far more torpedoes than one might imagine.

Say as the Omega, you send 6 units of level 1 snipers. That probably is an inadequate ground invasion force. You don't perfectly understand what they will encounter even if you sift through all the espionage and sabotage reports. In this example, there were maybe 5,000 such intel reports.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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You are not just sending 6 Da'unor Special Units as that is illogical that they alone would eliminate 800 million civilians.

You likely by real world military statistics are sending 36 million mixed composition forces that have Da'unor Special Units among them.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... 9Cberblick

Every transport has different capacity. And so, when doing ground invasions, then you want to put a correct amount of units to the ground invasion based on the defenses (if any) and the civilians size. Sending too many in the ground invasion is easy to do as you likely send as many troops as possible for logistical reasons to battlefronts.

You also in war would have staging areas and so likely off load units and size ground invasions as you can put way more on and then might have too strong a ground invasion force and so double or triple the predicted civilian casualty rate. This is very easy to do as you likely are sending one transport to each enemy sector and with an escort (likely an assault ship) then electing to alter the escort status as otherwise you also will be bombarding and this will raise the building damage and casualty rate. It will however increase the odds of success.

I am currently just sending 6 mostly level 6 Omega troops on single transports as that is largely what I constructed as many times those took 1 turn to make. Then trained these so they have quite a lot of experience.

But ideally you would send less strong units for smaller populations and stronger units for larger populations. Sometimes 6 level 6 units that are experienced inflict 30 billion casualties. It would take a lot of time to size each situation by population so an appropriate level of troops is used. Otherwise I would send 3 units and that means taking extra turns to only load that transport with 50% capacity. That is a lot of micromanagement requiring time.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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How many wargames have you ever played with that level of thinking? None that I can recall. This is not a simple game whatsoever. I truly think I have spend several thousands hours playing between the last of March through today. A good portion of time was reading the German BotE wiki. The only game that I ever had to spend a similar amount of time with was Medieval 2 Total War Kingdoms in some of the mods as you fight the battles so a single battle was very complex with many tactics employed.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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If there ends up being Level 15 through Level 20 research and newer troops are among that as well as many subclasses of existing ship classes, then level 7 troops or higher will have even more offensive and defensive strengths plus morale due to urban pacification.

So this means you could have many different kinds of units and could employ far more properly sized ground invasion forces to minimize casualties. Then have less morale issues.

But also if sabotage is properly pushed to very late turns, then actual battles of ground invasion forces attacking defenders too. So far, not once has the AI attacked my Omega sectors as they know they would get clobbered. Only a fool would try that.

I want actual battles, not destroying half the civilian population. Soldiers deserve soldiers.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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In the best possible game, there are significant AI defenders and a realistic number of invading soldier casualties so this limits war and the player feels bad as he or she sent brave men and brave women to their deaths to take that sector. Then you get low on soldiers and you need them to defend your own inhabited sectors.

War is not unlimited even on a war footing as we were in WW2.
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Re: Troop Unit Size

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16,112,566 soldiers served in the US during WW2. And the US population was 138.4 million. That is 11.64 % so a much higher percentage than 0.73%.

Let them never be forgotten. They put it all in the line. 407,316 died and 671,278 were wounded . War is Hell. The awful part suffered by the invaders and defenders is missing as it's largely civilian deaths as sabotage skews this in totally unrealistic ways.
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