Diplomacy

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UesugiKenshin
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Diplomacy

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One of the elements I'm trying to document is the vast differences between the major and minor races as that has quite an effect on diplomacy.

Within STTNG, this shows up in the Coming of Age episode. The way a Benzite would respond to conflict resolution with courtesy, or even an unknowing Terran, is vastly different than a Nasicaaan or a Zaldan.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=-PRkD6VpjCs
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Zaldan

The Klingons (Khaoron Empire) were hostile in kind and declared war on a rude minor race, and that actually improved diplomatic relations. The jovial Taltrades were optimistic from the start, even naively so.

Having galactic anthropology in a manner similar to the Vulcan database is not really a spoiler but crucial information before a first contact. The Borg (Xiborg) have a massive fleet one would not want to foolishly engage in early turns.

Similarly various anomalous entities are traveling around at warp speed and a direct hostile approach may cause the loss of expensive ships.
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Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
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Re: Diplomacy

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A lot of effort has gone into diplomacy versus disregarding your own race's expectations. Klingon warriors want to do battle to gain honor not negotiate and so you can consistently ignore this and cause a ruckus or play to the plebs' desires or the Hoi polloi.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hoi_polloi

Take the Roman aristocratic senate's approach too often (and not fight wild Gauls) versus the will of the people (who love winning battles versus barbarians), and then expect to be a very unpopular leader.

Each race has an initial ethos all along a continum regarding the major races and that then can have open naked hostility to naive optimism. They may act first and offer trade even though hostile. They may declare war. They may ask for a cooperation agreement especially if they are pacifists. They may be inclined to subterfuge and untrustworthy. Sincerity of actual intent is a rare phenomena. What young people label friendship today induces eyerolling. Whereas the Persians have a proverb that it's better to hang in chains with friends than dwell in a garden as excellent sincere friends are more valuable than gold.

Each has their own tech and at first glance you may dismiss them which would be a mistake as their membership can result in watching that infrastructure being ultimately realized, or greatly influence subjugating them to gain that technology. Some technology is even bawdy humor regarding such bad pollution from constant deuterium exposure that it can be mined from their feces. Which actually has some basis in the original Starfleet engineering documents on the replicators that claimed Klingon fewmets made the best tasting cheesecake.

Some example as screencaptures.
Screenshot_2020-04-02-10-17-31.png
Screenshot_2020-04-02-10-16-51.png
Screenshot_2020-04-02-10-16-37.png
Screenshot_2020-04-02-10-16-19.png
Note that one minor race (the Ba'a like the sheep) are described as medieval warriors YET they ultimately can create mechanized stormtroopers.

Or another is located on an aquatic world that you could never have initially colonized, yet you can end up controlling them,and thus gain a technology to induce tital waves. That could mess up foolish alien invaders' whole day.

Those races with purple text have been subjugated and yet their demeanor is indicative of their attitude prior to war. Whereas those with a red text are at war in the attached screencaps.

The demeanor is dynamic and can be increasingly positive by overt altruistic acts, bribery, trade agreements, offers of friendship, cooperation, membership, alliances,etc.

Or you can just kick their asses. Your choice. Playing nice seldom works or is authentic in a military strategy game and results in being backstabbed.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: Diplomacy

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Klingons as well as most races value the virtue of true loyalty so think twice about betraying a friendship treaty and think thrice about even offering such a thing. You will take a negative morale shift if you ignore this. You can act agressively to trigger the other race to break treaties or declare war, which your people then will positively respond to as with mock outrage you oppose the betrayers.

The Andorian Commander Thy'lek Shran (Jeffery Combs in one of many nuanced performances throughout the series) had quite a fine character arc as he begins very belligerently and then is wary, and then skeptically optimistic, and then extremely loyal with Commander Archer of the pre-Federation. From small sincere diplomatic gestures then led to the birth of the Federation, where logical but dismissive Vulcans sat down with irritated Tellarites, veteran Andorians, and naive Terrans.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=4duydMCFofw
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Thy%27lek_Shran
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
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Re: Diplomacy

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To me winning a diplomatic victory is a double edge sword as it means nauseatingly fostering an insincere sycophant attitude to gain populist support as the likely Terrans until such time that sheathed swords overcomes any reticence. But then I loathe politics. Winning such a game would be extremely difficult requiring hundreds of hours to gain a booby prize.
Conan The Barbarian, What is best in life quote QC wm_thumb[4].jpg
Which is actually probably anecdotal and regarding Ghengis Khan.

Then Genghiz Khan was willing to say: "You did not answer well! The greatest pleasure and joy for a man is to suppress a rebel and to defeat an enemy, uproot him and take everything he possesses, force his married women cry with tears, and to sit on his good and nice horses, and to make his beautiful wives....
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Re: Diplomacy

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So I'm playing as the Klingons with a 40x40 map at 100% with 33% for the minor races, all six empires activated, no anomalous entities, no random events, and with only total conquest turned on.
Screenshot_2020-04-04-17-26-57.png
It's turn# 180 and just by luck the Klingons are way over in the Southeast corner with nobody around but two tough minor races (one being the Xiborg). I haven't declared war or even acted in any provocative ways because I'm trying to build up the domestic infrastructure. I only have a skeleton crew military as most of my explored sectors were inappropriate for colonization and extensive terraforming is needed.
Screenshot_2020-04-04-17-12-57.png
Then this awful message comes up. The Dominion have not just badly lost, but it seems they not only have become a vassal state of the Federation, but have completely capitulated.

No fate could be worse to a Klingon.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
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Re: Diplomacy

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So playing as the Klingons, I felt that they wouldn't start any wars by turn#260 but would acquiese to trade negotiations as they lack adequate military forces to attack but mostly to gain sectors through exploration and colonization.

Almost all are hostile to them though I didn't act provocatively. I met some communications with static as I felt that was a reasonable Klingon tactic when underpowered (and the Borg and Delerans BOTH are outrageously overpowered with dreadnaughts!).

Then IF they declared war and yet I have surrounded them with sectors under Klingon control, then.joyfully I accepted they wanted to "throw down". Alright! That is what Klingons look forward to with joy. There is even a STTNG episode where Riker serves on a Klingon ship as the first officer and two Klingon officers joyfully say, "look around, there are no old men here."

Riker "That's right, they gloriously died in battle."
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=o-fhoKipt0E

It's not a negative to the Klingons to sacrifice their lives for the empire. It's like the samurai or the IJA during WW2.

You don't foolishly declare war against everyone when you can't back it up with deeds. The Klingons want worthy adversaries and feel sad that it so seldom happens. There is a funny scene where a Klingon captain challenges Data to a head butt and he's stunned by his strength and then raises both fists in JOY to finally find a worthy challenger. He's not angry.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OKQDRxs5Nzk
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Re: Diplomacy

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This is why I so bady want to preset the game with developed infrastructure and troops and ships and a sound economy by turn #200, #300,and #400 as there genuinely needs that much of a gap to start having thrilling solo combat and by turn #400 fleet attacks.

Amd do the same for multiple difficulty modes and for a very full galaxy with any surviving minor races.

Otherwise you have the Dominion being crushed at turn #180 which is just wrong.

I am taking the less compelling micromanaging out of the equations so you can have accurate exploration, technology, and robust economy that an empire could face two large engagements at once.

It takes about 24 hours to do 200+ turns, so maybe a week to do that for all six and be more meticulous. Then they start bumping into one another as the galaxy is VAST.

And then if only I could turn on the anomalous entities to a small degree in turn #400. That would make sense. Or a gradual in strength alien entity at turn#200. It really should be scripted not random.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
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More race details

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In the diplomacy menu, you get some terse information about a minor or major race. But if you hold down on the portrait art, then even more Information comes up which may or may not explain their motivations.

Like so.
Screenshot_2020-04-06-18-53-51.png
Screenshot_2020-04-06-18-54-10.png
Even though the Klingons are feared, and often would not offer trade or any treaty without careful introspection about whether it serves the glorious Klingon empire, doing so improved all diplomatic relationships. So even though seven+ were offered trade agreements, only two agreed, and it wasn't the two I expected. When played through to turn #300, four other minor races offered the Klingons a trade deal. Maybe the way they are configured, it has to be their idea? Some people are like that.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
Minor Race Ships http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... nen_Völker
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Re: Diplomacy

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If offering trade, it may not hold and it ties up a slot in the trade window for that sector. That can hurt you when transferring resources by a route. You might overextend your routes and have to buy an ore or crystals on the galactic exchange.

I bent over backwards to be friendly to the XiBorg as a test and they later for whatever reason became hostile. As I recall they were even friendly at one point.

Some 4x games presume the player wants conflict so upsets the applecart at regular intervals so the game is not too sedate.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
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Re: Diplomacy

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Speaking of which, I befriended the Moorlock as while they are pirates, they were pretty mild initially. They were friendly but ended up thieving sectors again fairly quickly. They are more like rogues than bad guys. Maybe like Okona?
https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Thadiun_Okona
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iDDETyWoVMY
They are one of the anomalous entities ie the monsters of the week Star Trek episodes.

You sure would not want to fight some or be incredibly powerful to do so.
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Re: Diplomacy

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So by nurturing trade and not automatically waging war, though the Klingons could have done so, they began diplomatic overtures that cost them zero credits and actually made them some profit through trade per turn.
Screenshot_2020-04-07-19-43-04.png
Now one has offered membership (perhaps the event message should say "we wish to inquire about membership" ).

The Klingons accepted and I was concerned what the morale response would be. Prior upon friendship or co-operation, a 1+ value shifted on morale. Now the Klingons have embraced the Zurinlingans as brothers.
Screenshot_2020-04-07-19-42-53.png
The difference being it's more sincere versus the Federation as there is no Prime Directive. Technically I doubt they are even capable of warp speed. Now they sure will be.

Next up why subjugation or membership helps your techtree.
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Re: Diplomacy

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On the easy level, it's easy to win over other races slowly through standard trade, then friendship, the cooperation,then they themselves will ask for membership.

If you ask them to join, some will refuse or at least delay. It seems like it's better when it's their idea.

I have not had the opportunity to terraform their planets as I need every single one that I have to either colonize or terraform my own worlds. I will have to test it to see how many diplomatic demeanor bars of change this induces.

I do not think the Klingons would offer an alliance as they would not see the minor races as equals. The Klingons are not egalitarian.
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Re: Diplomacy

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I have not met a single minor race that I was sorry I accepted into membership. That is very impressive balancing on the programmers' and team's part. I truly admire the very creative art and text and building and techtree design as it all synergistically enhances the game. I am not easily impressed either.
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Re: Diplomacy

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As you survey the systems in your sphere of infuence, some are stronger than others and they have a yellow circle with a black question mark in their system. If you enter with a scout ship or stronger, they will just shoot you down and nothing was gained. You want to enter diplomatic negtiations but have no way to hail them...yet (maybe it happens later as a consequence of better communications as you monitor chatter with a listening post as the Romulans.

Twice I successfully sent in my weakest colony ships as they have fragile shields but no armaments. They couldn't harm a fly and the AI knows it. So now I have two species I am in contact with. One is very powerful and slowly allowed trade and then friendship. It's doubtful they will enter into a cooperation treaty as their military is better than mine, so they are reticent.

It's risky as you might lose the colony ship. And later the colony ships versions have weaponry and stronger shields as the Klingons so require no escorts.

With the change of government trigger, it can sour diplomatic relations too.

I have no trade policy with four, but it would be beneficial. Once that is permitted, you pick a system generating ore/crystals and then you transfer material to them and see a profit. So I tried unofficially doing it anyway. It won't work but it was good to try. That actually happens in real life with smuggling and unofficial trade. For example Japan and China long long ago hated one another and instead traded through the Ryukan kingdom (Okinawa being the largest of the island chain). So they were actually trading, but didn't have to admit to trading. Korea did the same thing through Okinawa.

Such unofficial trading would be an interesting feature allowed by some races...even major ones as they know smuggling will happen. In others, it would anger them, with some it would thaw bad relations so favored trade status would then officially occur.
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Re: Diplomacy

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At this point, I'm not really playing BotE as much as I am bug-testing it and seeing what features it has to offer. And trying things as there really isn't genuine a fully fleshed out manual but forum entries in German, a German wiki, all very good and far better than the English wiki, and a scant manual in English.

For example, the Zuringians don't like the Romulans since turn#1 and have rebuffed all diplomatic exchange. So I'm thinking outside the box by saving the game first, then terraforming anyway as they have one habitable planet and no spaceships to terraform themselves. So I'm meddling big time. Initially they went from angry to hostile even though it's a defenseless colonyship. It's risky diplomacy that may lead to war. You don't know unless you try. Maybe they end respecting bravery?

The Zuringians did like the Klingons. Maybe bravery speaks louder than diplomacy? When I get done, all that overcrowding on their homeworld will disappear and maybe the Romulans are heroes or total villians. I'm doing what I think the Romulans might try. Romulans don't believe in the Prime Directive. They think it's absurd.
Minor Race Database http://birth-of-the-empires.de/wiki/ind ... r_(Minors)
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