Tactics

UesugiKenshin
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Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 02:30

In the 1984 classic Red Dawn, the Wolverines cannot directly attack a tank and the few soldiers refueling it. They wait and send innocent looking Toni who carries a rigged explosive device. They steal her food and hassle her, abandoning all discipline and training and focus, and then run on foot right into an ambush.

That is what displacement is all about. Impetuous soldiers underestimate the target and then make a horrible blunder. Reactions are often wrong; responding is prudent, logical, and what you were trained to do.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 02:41

Tristan and Isolde (2006)
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hOSP0GTatng

Attacking directly would likely fail and cause high casualties. Two brave fleet of foot soldiers then lured the rest away.
Zuletzt geändert von UesugiKenshin am Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 03:01, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Registriert: Dienstag 31. März 2020, 03:51

Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 02:52

People who don't know literature presume the tale of Troy is about Agamemnon leader of the Greeks getting captured Helen back to her husband Menelaus' to assuage some silly sense of honor and help his brother in the process. WRONG.

Menelaus wants the Trojans to fight for him some day. He does not want to engage them directly and lose soldiers when the whole situation is absurd and over frivialities. He's there because if he can add Trojan strength to his chariots, then the Greek army is unstopable.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Ar4kf5T7ihs

All these minor alien fleets should be enfolded in your military forces rather than a stupid battle when they could become valuable vassals especially through their ship designs. Essentially their homesector will improve by your wise actions. It's not like you are enslaving them.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 07:31

The problem as I see it is that you're not genuinely strong enough to be waging war until at least turn #600...and that is pushing it. You would have to have done everything economically perfect, finished research, avoided sabotage from turn 400-600, picked up minor race ship design, AND had a good map position.

Good luck with that.

So really that might be coming together in turn #700.

But the problem is even finishing level 14 tech does not have fleet formations thus tactics to employ confering tactical advantages, no manueverability variants, no speed variants, and what is more important practical counter-measures.

Levels 15 and higher should address these issues by modding the technology to facilitate every one of these aspects of aerial manuevers. (Yes I understand that they are in outer space and hence not atmosphere and effects like drag and stalling).

New tech should open up new starships to cope. Think I am wrong? The best customized Omega Alliance starships, sent against the Brane, if sent in a group led by a dreadnought, coupled with heavy destroyers, heavy cruisers, a battleship, multiple fighters with their own niches, and totaling say 6-8 starships...only has a 86% chance of winning if attacking and a 74% chance if avoiding. And these are experienced starships that have leveled up for over a hundred turns at a military academy too.

You could use the brute force method and bring a fleet with 12 in it. You could risk luring the Brane outside their homesector by displacement and thus they don't have any homesector defenses.

And my customized starships are vastly superior in many respects to base Omega starships.

The only valid way to even up the issues is several ships having minor race tech as countermeasures. Which means by luck and diplomacy you were able to get them by map location and being tremendously diplomatic,and doing everything right, acting wisely, and only then going against the Brane.

It's rough in the giant 40x40 map as there are not just the Brane but 3 more in that region,very close together restricting navigation. So even if you win, you will be damaged and lose ships, and need repair time. Meaning sending new experienced ships as replacements to then take on those 3 others. There is no rest for the wicked.

There should be a better mechanism to independently acquire technology that would allow better ships instead of customizing ships, as the Omega may never get torpedoes that negate shields or cloaking or even torpedoes that disable engines.

One might have to go to turn# 900 to gain minor race tech such that ships can be customized in the ship designer and of course, those won't have experience but be new ships, so green with that handicap.

Realize that after one maxes out on infrastructure, while your best sectors may have 200 morale so at the fanatical level, unless you actually wage war, it begins to drop every turn to numbers like 185 in some cases. Thus the people of the Omega Alliance want victory at any cost. And so even IF you defeated every minor race empire, then again, these morale numbers will drop. There is no mechanism to maintain high morale except new victories.

Thus if you kept playing, you would have to attack any non-members, even your allies, just to keep morale up. It really doesn't make sense.

It would if there were than 14 levels of tech such that better and better buildings existed that persistently adjusted morale to evoke the sense that all goals except war have been accomplished as the Omega Alliance have entered a "golden age".

See the modding topic for details. Essentially though the Omega Alliance are in a state of perfection ie a utopia, still morale inevitably declines.
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7080&start=420
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 15:23

If you were to look at the minor race fleets, what you would see is that while some minor races are "spacemen" and so have fleet capability, they only have two types, so straight away they are weaker, with some very weak as they may have scouts and fighters against a human player or a major race alien with six types.

Carrier strike groups are made up of several types each having a specific role to play. You would not send battleships as that is a very dated paradigm, but regardless, you would never send five battleships ie all one kind.

So minor race fleets begin unbalanced and should consistently lose.

It appears that each minor race ship is supposed to create a niche starship for the player to customize in the ship designer. I doubt the AI ever customizes. The way most AI opperate in 4Xgames, they use what is designed and seldom repair ships, but use up whatever exists.

The AI is sometimes foolish and will make an outmoded unit to save money or even think that multiple cheaper older units will be able to beat a newer unit type as it considers the cost benefit analysis. That is the likely reason that BotE won't let you make older iterations of ships...so the AI and new players don't try that...as it doesn't generally work.

So for AI led major and minor races, you want to create diverse starships and facilitate their success with proper mixed fleet assignments. AI generally are not smart enough to grasp these kinds of issues, but choose the brute force method of "more is better".
Zuletzt geändert von UesugiKenshin am Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 15:46, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Beiträge: 1214
Registriert: Dienstag 31. März 2020, 03:51

Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 15:32

It seems strange, but due to the limitations of any AI, it actually is better to have one on one battles where you have general purpose ships that have many abilities...likely cumulatively.

Whereas fleet formations are stylized battles about unit composition, multiple simultaneous attacks and defenses, feignts, using multiple ships to converge,flank, pin a ship or ships, etc. It's a big deal that BotE even attempts fleet battles. To do any kind of accurate fleet battles would require either some RTS elements or incorporate this by tech levels confering formations.

See the topic on combat without animations for a rock-paper-scissors discussion on employing fleet formations.
viewtopic.php?f=107&t=7076

That was done in the Homeworld series from inception with: claw, sphere, wall, parade, X, etc.
https://homeworld.fandom.com/wiki/Formations

Fleet battles are won by number crunching: unit attributes, command abilities, unit composition, formations, etc. Animations are just eye candy. Many games have such eye candy and it makes not a bit of difference as there is no human way to direct attacks with multiple targets without a lot of starting and stopping an engagement. Which defeats the whole purpose.

Realize space battles lack the standard issues of: terrain effects like reduced movement due to friction, elevation, time of day obscuring vision, heat, wet, fog, cold, swamp versus sand, etc. Those then become crucial to unit composition and RTS elements regarding the timing of simultaneous attacks and reduced morale due to the conditions of the battlefield.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 15:53

You would have to test this concept hundreds of times, but as small fighters are very fast and manueverable, less expensive in raw materials and time for development, can be configured to have monumental weaponry that are unrealistic based on their diminutive nature, then technically speaking a swarm might be able to evade the firing of weapons from capitol ships, and get in close past say a beam weapon cannon or the effective range of torpedoes, and so inflict a lot more damage.

It's amusing as that is the premise of sending X wing fighters against rather large heavy cruisers and trying to lob a chain reaction torpedo crammed down the mouth of the Deathstar.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Beiträge: 1214
Registriert: Dienstag 31. März 2020, 03:51

Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 15:56

Big bulky fleets are not generally manueverable. To protect each other limits their speed.

Little fighters cannot effectively use kamikaze attacks as their mass is too small to inflict enough hull damage. But in BotE, pull up the ship designer, and you will see that you can configure highly unrealistic payloads of torpedoes and so it might work.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Registriert: Dienstag 31. März 2020, 03:51

Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 15:59

In the days of the kamikaze, they lacked effective targeting of air to surface missiles. But with a huge abberation of torpedoes, coupled with much faster speed engagement and dancing around the capitol ships sluggish nature,the little hornet on its own can't win against a single human, but a swarm of them can cause many humans to leave the engagement.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

UesugiKenshin
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Beiträge: 1214
Registriert: Dienstag 31. März 2020, 03:51

Re: Tactics

Beitrag von UesugiKenshin » Mittwoch 1. Juli 2020, 16:09

The Omega Alliance from turn #709 forward can earn 7 million a turn by manipulating resource values up, sell them off at the end of the turn, and literally buying whole Omega battleships every single turn from multiple sectors. There would be no finesse to it; no genuine tactics, but just send huge armadas of battleships against every minor race sectors...and win.

See the issue for the AI is probably making "the unit that is the most powerful" and if the AI were in that situation, then that is what it likely would do. If you can make a fighter or a battleship in a single turn, what do you do?

That is not a very interesting way to win.

In Civ 2 and 3 that concept messed up the AI which is why you get monsterous levels of nuclear tipped ICBM wars that end up as ten year stalemates. There are youtube videos on that phenomena as the AI versus the AI cannot think of a way to win, and so makes as many ICBMs as possible, and the Earth has become a nuclear wasteland.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=GAi-l1TqO_I
Is the Federation actually evil due to adherence to the Prime Directive? I think so.
https://www.samurai-archives.com/kenshin.html
The Dragon of Echigo

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